Episode #446 – Fear of God and a Pharisee

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Fear of God and a Pharisee
Episode #446
June 21, 2015

With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special Guest: Carole Nelson & Jennifer Wentzel

This is the continuation of a series of Podcasts started in Episode #445.

(Carole) I guess what got me on this, this evening as we’re sitting around was that Martha made the comment that there have been many who have come. They’ve listened. They have…
(M) And they heard God.
(Carole) Yes, they heard Him.
(M) They heard God clearly.
(Carole) They hear Him.
(M) There’s one thing they didn’t do that you did though.
(Carole) Ooooo, ok. Thank you. I said, “Yes.”
(M) And you move on it.
(Carole) And I acted on it. And the Lord had said to me clearly, “Whatever she says, you are to do. She is right.”
(M) And it has to be the Voice of God. It cannot be another technique.
(Carole) No. No.
(M) God, love you, you did it, Carole.
(Carole) Well, you know, at that time, since that time there have been many, many instances of stepping out of independence back into dependence and obedience. Many times. I could go into one day before yesterday or sooner, earlier than that. But that was my beginning.
(M) Umhmm.
(Carole) That was, that was, that is how I was saved. I received Jesus Christ because, number 1, I had a need. Number 2, He called me to obedience and I obeyed. And number 3, I received because I heard His Voice.
(M) And you responded.
(Carole) And I responded. And I see that now, and I’ve looked at that period of time is so crucial. It is His testimony in me. It is, He came in and He took a Pharisee and He came and as Jeremiah 1 says… Ok, this is what I see. And this is Jeremiah, the Prophet, in the Old Testament, and the Lord had sent him to warn Israel, but this is what I see the prophet does. “See, I have this day set you over the nations and over the kingdoms.” The prophet came to be set over my kingdom, only it was a kingdom of darkness. Ok? That is the truth. It was a kingdom of Phariseeism. “To route out and to pull down, to destroy and to throw down,” in order to “build and to plant.” “Then the Lord said to me,you have..” Well, anyway it talks about the almond tree and the Lord says, “You have seen well, for I am ready to perform My word.” And God performed and is performing His very word. But the prophet comes in to tear down and destroy the delusions, the lies, the fortresses, the barriers that keep us from the very love of God.
(J) Umhmm.
(M) Umhmm.
(Carole) “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” What is that believing? It’s receiving, for one thing. That believing is a true receiving and saying, “Not my will any longer, Lord, but Your will. You are right and I am wrong. You are right about everything. You are right; You see, and I bow to You, and I choose Your will above all things.” That is receiving and there are many who leave.
(J) Umhmm.
(Carole) There are many who leave Him, because they will not bow. They will not truly bow to the authority or the prophet or just the messenger or the pastor or whoever it is that God has put over your life, because you think you might know better. That’s where I was for a long time.
(J) I think one of the amazing things is that… Because I can hear people say, “Oh, well, you don’t submit to a man, you only submit to God.” But the fact is is that God will have you submit to a man because a Pharisee is so independent. The work of God is to crush that independence, and there is no more crushing act than to put you underneath another human.
(Carole) Exactly, John. That was exactly what I needed. That is exactly, because I had an unbroken will.
(J) And to submit to another man, to literally hear the Voice of God to say, “Submit to this fallible prophet or woman or whatever;” It’s a complete crushing of your pride, of your… It’s a death. It’s just all day long, it’s a death.
(Carole) It is the cross.
(J) It is a cross. Absolutely. It is the cross, yeah, because you’re literally being crushed in that. And it’s perfect that He does that to a Pharisee because of the independence that a Pharisee has. The Pharisee’s mind is so chaotically independent against the will of God, against the, you know. While they wave the Word in His face, they stand completely opposed to it. And so, it’s amazing to put you underneath a fallible man and say, “Listen and heed.” It’s pretty amazing. So that death for a Pharisee is perfect. And so, you know, I can look and say back to the nay sayers saying, “God would never have you submit to a man.” And it’s like, “Have you met Him?”
(M) Have you read the Bible?
(Carole) Yeah.
(M) Do you know Timothy?
(J) Umhmmm.
(Jennifer) Oh, ok, here’s how I see the difference. God said, “Call no man Father or Teacher,” right? Didn’t He use Rabbi and Abba or whatever?
(M) Rabbi, Umhmm.
(Jennifer) There’s a difference between submitting to someone, coming under their authority where God puts you and putting that person first in your heart.
(M) There you go.
(Jennifer) There’s a distinction. No one is first in my heart. No one is capital T, Teacher, beyond the Holy Spirit.
(J) Right, right.
(Jennifer) Nobody is capital F, Father beyond the Lord God.
(J) Right.
(Jennifer) I have one capital H, Husband, and that’s Jesus Christ.
(J) Right.
(Jennifer) That has no bearing whatsoever on coming under another human being’s authority.
(J) Right, right.
(Martha) It’s to the Father you are bowing.
(Jennifer) Absolutely.
(Martha) Carole heard the Father and did what the Father said. I never asked her to bow to me.
(Jennifer) No, He said.
(Martha) I never asked, it would never have occurred to me to demand that or ask that of her, even verbalize it, or even think it. She got that from God.
(Carole) And that was the first probably the first breaking down of the wall, because first of all a Pharisee can be a religious Pharisee. A Pharisee can be anybody who has set a law about anything.
(J) Umhmmm.
(Martha) Who thinks they’re right.
(Carole) A Pharisee, yeah, that thinks they know everything there is to know about something. And the problem with that is, back to the word receive, a Pharisee on any level cannot receive anything.
(J) Umhmmm. That’s true.
(Martha) I’ve been spending a time in the first chapter of Proverbs and the second chapter for days. And it is just fascinating. And here’s what happened to you, Carole, in the Word. “Wisdom cries out in the streets and says simple ones, how long are you going to love being simple?” And wisdom is Christ. “And scoffers delight in scoffing. And self confident fools hate knowledge.” “If you will turn, repent, and give heed to My reproof…
(Carole) Yes…
(Martha) “Behold, I, wisdom will pour my spirit out upon you, and I will make my words known to you.” So it’s the perfect to me, the whole thing. It’s all about reproof. I reproved you, because God told me.
(Carole) Yes.
(Martha) That you were not born again. So, I reproved you, and you turned and He poured out His Spirit on you, and He is now, up to this day making His words known personally to you.
(Carole) Yes.
(Martha) It was never really anything but you and God going through this.
(Carole) You’re absolutely, because you were… God sent you. He sent you.
(Martha) I was a ‘sent one’ to you.
(Carole) You were a ‘sent one’ to me, to save me. And I could have chosen. I could have chosen the other way and said, “Ummp! I’m not going to do that.”
(Martha) And somebody commented, “Most people did turn away from Jesus.”   It goes on to say, “Because I called and you refused to answer, I stretched out my hand and no man heeded it. You treat it as nothing my council and would accept none of my reproof, I will laugh at your calamity. I will mock when the thing comes that will cause you terror and panic. When your panic comes as the storm and desolation and your calamity comes as a whirlwind, when distress and anguish come upon you, then they will call upon me, wisdom, but I will not answer.” Reproof is the cross, the cross roads for almost everybody.
(J) Ummm
(Martha) If you won’t be corrected by God; I’m not the corrector, God is. If you won’t be corrected, you will lose God, and you will not have your prayers answered. The thing I’m getting out of this, you know, it says we know it tritely. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, the beginning of wisdom. You don’t have wisdom until you fear Him. And all of this in here is pointing to the fear of God; something we don’t have these days.
(Carole) When you’re saying that, Martha, what I realize was happening was the fear of God. Even as He put that book in my hand and wrote and clearly opened up such a contrast, and opened up my seeing to see how ‘other than’ I was. That was the fear of God. It put me for the first time in my life, I believe, it put me in the fear of God.
(M) And it’s so essential to have Him do that work and to respond. And on down in here in Proverbs it says, “You did not choose the fear of God.” It’s a choice. It’s always a… Even to fear Him is a choice. The longer I go, the more I fear Him, because the more I see His power and His absolute righteousness. It’s unshakable and immoveable, and He is… Oh, He is just… I see Him in the Word. I see Him in life. I see Him by the Spirit, and He is to be feared. I’m not… I’m not afraid of Him in the sense that He’s going to toss me aside. That’s not what I’m talking about. I just know Him, and the more I know Him the more absolutely terrifying He is. I’m glad I’m in His, in the palm of His hand, because I see those who aren’t. And I see the terrible consequences. And He tells us clearly, He doesn’t hide His terribleness from us. He tells us clearly, and then He tells us as He did here about you. “If you turn and repent and give heed;” That’s receive. Heed means take it in and get it. “to my reproof, behold, I, wisdom will pour out my spirit upon you. That’s, I’m praying, and been praying for years for the outpouring of the Spirit in the last days, and what I need to pray for adding to is the repentance of the Spirit and that preparation for accepting reproof, because without repentance there will be no outpouring of the Spirit. “And then I will make my words known to you.” In other words, I’ll have an intimate conversation with you, and I’ll speak to you My words. So in that one verse, it’s the entirety of the human challenge and the human salvation. “Turn to My reproof.”

Fear of God and a Pharisee – Episode #446 – Shulamite Podcast