Divine Designed Life Podcast

Episode #436 – Miracle of Redemption

Girl looking to stars

Miracle of Redemption
April 12, 2015
Episode #436

With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special Guest: Carole Nelson and Jennifer Wentzel

(M) I said in the conference that we’ve heard it said that we stand in the court being accused of what we’ve done, worthy of death and Jesus steps in and says, “I’ll die in their place.” And I think it’s, I think it’s much more than that. It think He steps in and says, “She didn’t do it. I did it.”
(C) Wow.
(M) He took it that deeply into Himself and solved it, so that that’s how you and I can be holy and pure, though we have never been innocent. We are made innocent by His absorbing all of that, taking the punishment.
(C) Is that Paul wrote Romans, and he wrote all of Romans that first convicts us and shows us our sins, that there is no one without sin, and then he goes through the whole process ending up with… and I’m seeing it in connection with what you’re saying. He could, he could have joy. He had joy. He lived guiltless and said, “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,” and I have stumbled over that scripture over and over and over again until today. And I see it like I have never seen it before, as you have brought that message, because He was so… He was forgiven, but he was so cleansed that he could give us that word, “There is therefore now no condemnation for you who are in Christ Jesus.”
(Jennifer) Because “it’s no longer I that live, but Christ that lives in me.” So my boldness in approaching the throne is because I am literally not there. I have literally been taken out. I have been entirely inhabited by righteousness that is not mine, so I don’t have to earn it, because I’m really no longer in the picture. I get to be a vessel of His joy, of His peace, of His life. That’s the deal. That’s the exchange. But I’ve never seen before that the work to believe that is the only thing that stands between me and the reality of that.
(M) Oh, beautiful, yes.
(Jennifer) The only thing, literally the only thing that stands is my work to believe.
(M) It’s so simple, so simple.
(Jennifer) So completely the solution for everything, because it encompasses everything. There is not one thing in my life that I struggle with that is not solved by the fact that, “It’s no longer I who live.” It makes it no longer my problem. “Well, Lord, how are You going to solve this? What are You going to do?”
(M) I’m going to play while You work! (laughter!)
(Jennifer) To experience the miracle of that, and to be airlifted entirely out of it in terms of my worries and my concerns, and then my sole work, my sole responsibility is to believe in this fantastical and to love Him for giving it to me. What else could there possibly be?
(C) I was just thinking about what Jen said about David, comparing her brain, David and Paul to the light, and how David was a man after God’s own heart, and how when he and Bathsheba’s first child was born and was going to die… The Lord said he’s going to die. And David got on his face and repented and fasted and petitioned and petitioned and the child died, and the servants were afraid to tell him that the child had died. But when they did, he got up. He washed his face. He went in and ate and left his guilt and went on with his life, because he knew God.
(M) He did know somehow the Lord Jesus. It says so in Acts, so he knew redemption.
(C) I just want to celebrate. I want to throw off these garments that I put on myself, these death garments and rejoice in my cleansing. When you were talking to me this morning I kept hearing a scripture that I couldn’t hear. It was out there somewhere, and it had to do about being cleansed and being pure and I just couldn’t find it. I couldn’t get it, and I had to do some searching for it, and I did find it in 1st John 3:3. “And everyone who has this hope resting on him cleanses, purifies himself just as He, God, is pure, chaste, undefiled and guiltless.” That’s the scripture that I couldn’t see. It was like a shadow to me. But I’ve never understood that scripture until now, that we are cleansed through a hope.
(M) Through a promise.
(C) Through a promise. Help me with it, because this is…It’s still a shadow to me, but it is like you can’t even… You are cleansed through that hope. You are cleansed through that faith. You are cleansed… I don’t know. Help.
(M) Carole, the motivation is in verse 2; it’s His appearing. That’s the motivation. When He comes and is manifest we shall as God’s children resemble Him and be like Him for we shall see Him just as He really is, and everyone has this hope to see Him and to be like Him… Cleanses and purifies himself.”
(C) But I couldn’t even have that hope. Do you see? I couldn’t even have… That’s always pierced me. That scripture has pierced me, but I have not, somehow I can’t even have the hope in seeing Him without being thoroughly cleansed, believing in my full cleansing from my sin. Am I making any sense?
(M) Absolutely. Absolutely, and that’s exactly what I believe the verse is about. How do you cleanse yourself? You run and say, “Show me what’s in me. Show me my sin.” That’s how, that’s the only way I can cleanse myself is to be willing to freely admit, to walk in the light. And that’s walking in the light. Ok. You’re coming. Oh, that is exciting and terrifying, so show me.   Show me. So you go back to 1 John. See that’s still in 1 John. So it goes back to 1:7 and 9, I think. Is that too simple.
(C) No, He was answering. I think He was answering a dilemma for me in this scripture, and it was a shadow. When you were speaking to me, that shadow was there, and I had to go find it. But there is, “Everyone who has this hope.” What hope? That I will see Christ. I WILL see Christ. There was still doubt because of the lack my faith in the cleansing.
(M) But see, Carole, that’s… you had the integrity. You told me you had been crying out to God in that phone conversation. You said, “This is the answer to what I’ve been asking for.” So that is, that is spiritual integrity. The Spirit was moving on you and you were responding to solve something, and He answered, and He answered it.
(C) He solved it in that.
(Jennifer) Well, I think for me it was an answer that I didn’t even know the question I was asking Him. It was almost a wordless cry, because there is, there is a joy and a relief in being forgiven when you confess, but that’s not the same thing as stepping out cleansed.
(M) Yes.
(Jennifer) It’s not the same thing. It’s the difference between joy and there is an unburdening that comes with confession and with knowing you’re forgiven. And that is in and of itself especially if you’ve never known it before an inexplicable. And you think, “Well, that’s as high as it gets,” because if feels better than anything you’ve ever experienced before. But what I’m glimpsing now, and I think the reason I’m tearful, because it’s not… I don’t know. It’s just all too much. It’s the difference between feeling loved, because there is, when you’re forgiven there is a warmth of love. But it’s not the same thing as being resurrected. And in all of this I think that when you talked about resurrected life, Martha, there’s an aspect that I haven’t been able to connect with, because if you haven’t lived cleansed, then how would you know what it is to live a life that is completely apart from death, that is utterly conquered, that is no longer connected in any way, shape or form to the death that is sin, because it’s not enough to be forgiven. And honestly, in that sense, it’s not enough to be relieved about being forgiven and to have… And that is a joy. But I have seen lived in your life something that I have not had, that I have not accessed, and I’m realizing I’m just now being able to put into words what it is; that wordless cry that said, “This can’t be all there is, because I’m missing something.” And I have been tethered to my sin in that way. Not being cleansed I have not been able to access resurrection life. I have not, I’ve still been dragging it around with me. I have been forgiven, but without the cleansing I haven’t experienced the miraculous of resurrected life, which is totally and completely unconnected, disconnected, unanchored, unbound, something entirely beyond this life. And I have not, I have not gone there because I have not believed, honestly, that such a thing was possible on this side. I really thought that was what I experienced when I died; that was really only accessible in the next life. So the idea that it is here, that that is meant to be… It’s just way too much for me to even take in. I can’t, but I feel like there’s just something in front of me now that I didn’t… Well, it’s just an answer to a cry I didn’t know I had, Carole, so yeah.
(M) I just want to end by going back to the scripture in the Amplified. “If we freely admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just, true to His own nature and promises, and will forgive our sins, dismiss our lawlessness, and continuously cleanse us from all unrighteousness, everything not in conformity to His will in thought, purpose and action.” AMEN
(All) AMEN

Miracle of Redemption – Episode #436 – Shulamite Podcast

4 Responses

  1. Sam says:

    Carole, I should thank you your testimony of the “shadow”, this you not being able to access “cleansing”. I have also been there, God always calling me to Himself.

    Also Jennifer says something so amazing:

    So my boldness in approaching the throne is because I am literally not there. I have literally been taken out. I have been entirely inhabited by righteousness that is not mine, so I don’t have to earn it, because I’m really no longer in the picture.

    This is the very expression of the mystery.

    Thank you all!

  2. Tammy Hardin says:

    A word that’s been in right in front of me yet I never saw it…indescribable!
    The world needs to know!

    Matthew 6:10
    “Your Kingdom come Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”


    1. LeAnn says:

      Oh, yes! THERE is the reason for joyful hope–HIS will! Because He Is good, His Will Is perfect! Singing the song that reveals who He is:
      ‘Praise Him, praise Him all ye little children! God is Love! God is Love!’

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